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美海内战前,北方黑奴待遇真的比同时代英国工人好?_0

上传时间:2018-01-30阅读次数:编辑:admin
美海内战前,北方黑奴待遇真的比同时代英国工人好?

前未几读到对于 William Fogel 的The Economics of American Negro Slavery 的书评,提到种植园主履行的是家长式温情的治理,黑奴人均肉类摄入高于1964年的水平。那应该比英国工场里的工人好不少吧?

“sunbo231禁言”回复:田主家的大牲畜天然比长工照料得好。

“sumii”回复:不是自己的货色做作不知道爱护。社会主义的厂长和资本家哪个对工厂更爱护?奴隶比同时期自由民生死水平高有什么奇怪,只是自由民至多还有抉择的机会。

“春秋笔法”回复:这书是70年代的书了,良多数据都是预算的,并且采样时光是一个棉花市场繁荣期。PS:特地说一下,作者实在是想挑衅黑人低人一等的传统观点。

“tejat”回复:桑巴特的美国为什么没有社会主义书里说过一个段子,一爱尔兰人写家信说美国这里好极了,我每星期都可以吃到肉。雇主奇异道,你丫不是天天吃肉么。爱尔兰回,我这么说故乡的人基本不会信。

“铅封列车司机”答复:请问当初学界的研讨结果怎样样,有什么修改啊?

不是应当问北方奴隶主和南方资本家哪个更敲骨吸髓么?

“gameboy”回复:真不必问,北美中部大平原的存在招致美国工人的工资高起,连恩格斯都在高呼美国破例--你要真感到不想服侍本钱家了,去中部年夜平原种地就行,只有10美元,就能在中部平原拿到160英亩合960亩耕地。南方资本家想敲骨吸髓也只能去吸连10美元都拿不出来的华工、爱尔兰人跟束缚黑奴--所以南方吵吵要废奴,那是真缺人。美国阶层抵触激化要到1880年月末中部平原开辟结束,美国汗青上对此有个专著名词“大陆关闭”。

“sumii”回复:有人考据黑奴束缚之后生死水平降落是普遍存在。大批黑人涌入大城市 因为缺少生产材料只能从事低端休息 直到现在美国少数大城市黑人都占相称比例,事先美国法令对休息者权利维护无比无限,资本家各类名堂克扣劳工,敢对抗有平克顿公司的侦察和雇佣的私兵赞助弹压。

“春秋笔法”回复:http://economy.guoxue.com/?p=3252,修正也不是现在的事了,这事过气曾经好几十年了。      

“Lsquirrel”回复:吃的肉多就是生活好?连人都不算,扯什么生活待遇。

“铅封列车司机”回复:在品德态度上批判没有成绩,但是探索历史上其物质生活前提也是有需要的。再说作者也不是为奴隶制唱赞歌,只是批评后来资本家更残暴。

“年龄笔法”回复:错误,作者对照的是同时期的资本家。别的他的总盘剥率的算法被以为有成绩。

“铅封列车司机”回复:多谢,我也觉得怀疑的就是他说黑奴事先能保有其产出的九成。。。认为不堪设想。

问个题外,事先黑奴和束缚前的长工待遇相比方何?

“Lsquirrel”回复:如果预先分析结论和事情产生时的民众广泛印象相反,那么十之八九这个剖析是错的,无论使用的方式名义上看起来如许迷信多么公道 那些数据发生时都不成能牢靠,更别说一百年后故纸堆里有偏向的研究了。举个简略的例子:

“他们测算出南北战斗以前北方奴隶的均匀生产率大概比自由休息者高70%。 在奴隶的毕生中,他所生产的90%归本人一切。奴隶的生活条件同自由休息者比拟是好的。”

依照书中这两处论断,奴隶比自由平易近支出高至多50%(出产率170:100,支出比例假设为对自由民最有利的90:100) 既然如斯,美国还干嘛废止契约白奴呢,要知道这可是白奴们重复抗争甚至屡次起义的成果。如果这么推导下去,岂不是能够推出一个十分独特和种族主义的结论:白人智力低下,不理解若何寻求失掉更好的生活。黑人深藏若虚,乐做奴隶享用生活?

“春秋笔法”回复:事先是指采样的棉花繁华十年吗?那应该是黑奴物资待遇更好一点。

“09071139zzy”回复: ,www.mf222.com;这个标题有点成绩,就是没有很正确的阐明时代。固然楼主你说了内战前单方待遇的比较,但是就我所知,内战前至多黑人奴隶的身份改变光从17世纪的契约奴转化为之后的种植园奴隶就花了不少时间。晚期的北方还有大规模应用白人契约奴的时间段呢!在南部黑人待赶上,怎样说呢,北方我记得是马里兰仍是哪里的州法对主奴单方的关联有个界说。一,奴隶要遵从主人,二,主人要尽可能的保证奴隶的生活。也就是说,种植园主对于黑奴可以用一手拿鞭子,一手拿糖来对待。对黑人的体罚和大范围的劳作是一方面,但同时,也辅助其组建家庭,停止宗教运动。当然,www.mf222.com,对这些,我觉得都是树立在奴隶自身是奴隶主的财富下。究竟一个18岁的安康黑人奴隶的利润光其本身就有近80美元呢。

“蒋公参谋崔可夫”回复:1864年,联邦部队攻占了田纳西州的一处种植园并开释了园中的黑奴。这此中有一位乔顿.安德森。之后他掉臂原主人的恼怒与要挟,立即离开了种植园。1965年南北战役停止后乔顿携老婆儿女在俄亥俄州的代顿市假寓。当年7月,乔顿意本地收到了旧日奴隶主的来信。不识字的他请一位友人瓦伦汀.温特斯律师念诵了这封信,本来他出生的种植园现在因为无人耕耘而债权缠身,他的旧主情面急之下接洽了他意识的独一一位既有农业技巧,又有可能压服其他束缚黑奴回来干活的人。几天后,三思而行的乔顿向温特斯口述了自己的回信。

******

Dayton, Ohio,

代顿市,俄亥俄州

August 7, 1865

1865年8月7日

To My Old Master, Colonel P.H. Anderson, Big Spring, Tennessee

致我旧日的主人,P.H.安德森上校,大泉市,田纳西

Sir: I got your letter, and was glad to find that you had not forgotten Jourdon, and that you wanted me to come back and live with you again, promising to do better for me than anybody else can. I have often felt uneasy about you. I thought the Yankees would have hung you long before this, for harboring Rebs they found at your house. I suppose they never heard about your going to Colonel Martin's to kill the Union soldier that was left by his company in their stable. Although you shot at me twice before I left you, I did not want to hear of your being hurt, and am glad you are still living. It would do me good to go back to the dear old home again, and see Miss Mary and Miss Martha and Allen, Esther, Green, and Lee. Give my love to them all, and tell them I hope we will meet in the better world, if not in this. I would have gone back to see you all when I was working in the Nashville Hospital, but one of the nei**ors told me that Henry intended to shoot me if he ever got a chance.

师长教师:来信已收到。我很快慰你还没忘了乔顿,还想让我搬归去和您一同生涯,还承诺要比其余人更好地看待我。我始终对您释怀不下。我原认为南方佬良久以前就由于您在自家私藏叛军而把您绞逝世了呢。事先您听说联邦军在马丁上校家的马棚里留下了一名伤员,于是就特地赶从前把人家杀了。依我的鄙意,这件事件南方佬大略也从没据说过吧?只管您在我分开之前朝我开了两枪,然而我仍然不肯听到您失事的新闻,您还没死我真是太愉快了。我也很想回到敬爱的老家看一看,再次见到玛丽小姐、玛莎蜜斯、艾伦、艾斯特、格林与李。请代我向他们问好。假如这辈子无缘再会,我很盼望能在地狱里见到他们。我在纳什维尔病院任务的时分底本盘算回去看您的,不外一位街坊告知我亨利只要一见到我就会开枪打我。

I want to know particularly what the good chance is you propose to give me. I am doing tolerably well here. I get twenty-five dollars a month, with victuals and clothing; have a comfortable home for Mandy,-the folks call her Mrs. Anderson,-and the children-Milly, Jane, and Grundy-go to school and are learning well. The teacher says Grundy has a head for a preacher. They go to Sunday school, and Mandy and me attend church regularly. We are kindly treated. Sometimes we overhear others saying, "Them colored people were slaves" down in Tennessee. The children feel hurt when they hear such remarks; but I tell them it was no disgrace in Tennessee to belong to Colonel Anderson. Many darkeys would have been proud, as I used to be, to call you master.

我很想晓得这一次您乐意为我供给怎么优厚的任务机遇。我在这里混得还行。我一个月能赚二十五美元,雇主还提供了收费三餐与衣物。曼迪终于有了一个舒服的家--外地人都尊称她安德森夫人。孩子们--米莉、简与格兰迪--在黉舍里都表示不错。教师还告诉我格兰迪头脑很灵,未来也许能当牧师呢。这里的人们都很宠遇我们。有时我们去田纳西州也能听到他人说闲话:“那帮黑人畴前都是奴隶。”孩子们听到这种话都很好受,我就告诉他们,在田纳西州为安德森上校家当奴隶没什么好丢人的。好些黑皮要是能成为您家的奴隶城市觉得出人头地,我以前也是这么想的。

Now if you will write and say what wages you will give me, I will be better able to decide whether it would be to my advantage to move back again. As to my freedom, which you say I can have, there is nothing to be gained on that score, as I got my free papers in 1864 from the Provost-Marshal-General of the Department of Nashville. Mandy says she would be afraid to go back without some proof that you were disposed to treat us justly and kindly; and we have concluded to test your sincerity by asking you to send us our wages for the time we served you. This will make us forget and forgive old scores, and rely on your justice and friendship in the future. I served you faithfully for thirty-two years, and Mandy twenty years. At twenty-five dollars a month for me, and two dollars a week for Mandy, our earnings would amount to eleven thousand six hundred and eighty dollars. Add to this the interest for the time our wages have been kept back, and deduct what you paid for our clothing, and three doctor's visits to me, and pulling a tooth for Mandy, and the balance will show what we are in justice entitled to. Please send the money by Adams's Express, in care of V. Winters, Esq., Dayton, Ohio.

您如果乐意在回信中讲明白您打算付我几多工资,那我就能更好地决议搬回去对我有没有利益了。至于我的自由--您说此次我有自在--这方面曾经不什么可供进步的余地了。因为我在1864年就从纳什维尔的宪兵总司令手里拿到了自由文书。曼迪说要是没有证据标明您真心打算善待咱们,她就不敢回去。我们两个商讨之后决定考验一下您的诚意:请您将我们在您家干活这些年来的应得工资寄给我们。 只要您把钱寄来,我们之间的旧账就算一笔取消了。从今往后我们将会非常愿意地仰赖您的正派与友情。我为您虔诚效劳了三十二年,曼迪为您效劳了二十年。依据我今朝月薪二十五美元的支出水平,以及曼迪每周两美元的程度,这些年来我们两个的应得工资是一万一千六百八十美元。加上这笔钱这些年来衍生的本钱,减去您为我们购置衣物的费用,为我部署三次大夫登门问诊的用度,以及为曼迪拔失落一颗龋齿的费用,终极的额度就是我们理当取得的金钱。请经过亚当斯特快将钱款送来,转交给俄亥俄州代顿市的V.温特斯律师即可。

If you fail to pay us for faithful labors in the past, we can have little faith in your promises in the future. We trust the good Maker has opened your eyes to the wrongs which you and your fathers have done to me and my fathers, in making us toil for you for generations without recompense. Here I draw my wages every Saturday night; but in Tennessee there was never any pay-day for the negroes any more than for the horses and cows. Surely there will be a day of reckoning for those who defraud the laborer of his hire.

如果您不克不及为我们过去的忠实效劳付钱,我们也无奈相信您关于将来的许诺。我们信任,造物主曾经擦亮了您的双眼,让您看清了您与您的父辈对于我与我的父辈所施加的各种不义之举。我们为您们世代辛苦,却一无所得。如今我每周六早晨都能支付薪水,但是在田纳西黑人就像牛马一样全无发薪日可言。对于那些讹诈雇工的人们来说,算总账的日子迟早都会到的。

In answering this letter, please state if there would be any safety for my Milly and Jane, who are now grown up, and both good-looking girls. You know how it was with poor Matilda and Catherine. I would rather stay here and starve-and die, if it come to that-than have my girls brought to shame by the violence and wickedness of their young masters. You will also please state if there has been any schools opened for the colored children in your nei**orhood. The great desire of my life now is to give my children an education, and have them form virtuous habits.

在回信傍边烦请您注明米莉与简是否失掉保险对待。她们都曾经长成美丽的大姑娘了。您应该还记得不幸的玛蒂尔达与凯瑟琳遭受了什么。我宁可待在这里受饿--甚至于饿死--也不愿看到我的女儿在小少爷们手中遭遇耻辱与残害。此外还愿望您能注明您家邻近有没有面向黑人儿童的学校,www.mf222.com。我生平最大的宿愿就是让我的子女接收教导,养成品格高贵的习气。

Say howdy to George Carter, and thank him for taking the pistol from you when you were shooting at me.

最后请代我向乔治.卡特先生称谢,多谢他在现在您开枪打我的时分抢下了手*枪。

From your old servant,

您已经的仆人,

Jourdon Anderson.

乔顿.安德森。

******

温特斯为这封信增加了一个非正式题目,《一位自由人写给旧日主人的信》,而且在外地报纸上公然宣布,随即传遍了全国甚至欧洲局部地域。他的旧主人亨利的莳植园在回信昔时颗粒无收,只得廉价出卖。多少年之后,四十四岁的亨利死于赤贫。乔顿.安德森再也没有前往田纳西州大泉市。他于1907年逝世,享年八十一岁,死后留下了十一名后代。 


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本文出自北朝论坛,作者 : 铅封列车司机

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